never forget white people did nothing first neither the best, they sleep and eat false propaganda,
Ugh, why the shit does that have to turn into a race thing? Why does EVERYTHING have to turn into a race thing?
because white people have made sure that everything is about race
as proved by the fact that when you say explorer, you think of a bunch of white guys walking the world and discovering it ~exotic wonders~ even though Zheng He travelled through Asia, to the Middle East, and even East Africa. But you’d likely never heard of him before.
Same reason you never heard of Ahmad Ibn Fadlan, an Arab traveller who, as early as the 10th century, went to the Volga area for diplomatic reasons. He wrote about it, much as Marco Polo would do later for his own travels, and is one of our sources on what viking were like (and by all accounts, he wrote about them more accurately than western scholars of the same period did)
Oh, or Ibn Battuta who travelled throughout Africa long before europeans did, and even went to Europe himself.
And that’s just some example of Muslim medieval travel writers
Everything is about race because white people keep telling everyone that their race is the only one who every got anything done.
i have heard of precisely zero non-european explorers ever in my life, and that fucking sucks. this exhibit is amazing and i need to learn more.
That boat is a frickin aircraft carrier comparatively. Holy crap. And no. Never heard a peep.
Zhenghe went to over 40 countries in Asia and Africa and probably went even further, but I didn’t encounter that in history books before. He brought gifts from China to every country he went to and everyone loved him. It was just like “Hey, I’m here with a water-helicarrier and a gift,” and the kings of every country were lilke “holy shit son well here have a giraffe.” There are paintings depicting him leading a giraffe as well. Check him out guys, he’s really cool
Yes that’s why his ships were made to be fucking huge and intimidating, why local rulers were basically told “be nice to us an give us stuff or we use these huge boats and soldiers to fuck your shit up btw here’s a gift for your trouble,” and the items that Zheng He brought back to China were declared as tribute from abroad. Zheng He had a huge fleet with huge ships because the point was to strike awe in everyone who saw it, it was a show of muscle.
Oh wait sorry no this is tumblr, where we fight racism by implying that non-europeans were all childlike, innocent, harmonious beings incapable of violence without the influence of white people. Because the Noble Savage myth is totally anti-racist!
You can be totally critical of tumblr’s politics without being snarky and “stickin it to the sjw’s” Your tone is really not needed. Its a valid point but god. This is the reason why being critical of any social justice approved politics or discussion and disagreement within those political circles is not hugely welcome or can even be done properly. Some 4chan sounding person is always gonna come and derail and make it about hating those minorities that speak up even if said minorities arent even “sjw” and are just people talking about things.
You could have totally made this into a nice educative point and also worded yourself better. Like is your point to actually criticize and get sj persons to look at what they’re doing or be snarky for fun on the internet??
I’ve made so many posts talking about the bad points of tumblr and how sj circles around here run and the problems and I make a point to try and make it into a learning experience bc I actually give a shit about these people and trying to make them think about what the fuck they’re doing. God there are ways to talk to people, esp people who are used to abuse and being treated badly like poc, women, trans people etc
Side note though I’m pretty sure Zheng He did not do anything like what Columbus did. I’m pretty sure he had his shit though, imperial china being what it was. And the point of the post was that Columbus who is hailed as a great explorer, is not even on the level of any actual “great explorers.” And that we probably do not hear about non-white ones because of western imperialism being as lily white as it is.
one of the main reasons more of Us The SJWs aren’t able to talk more about what’s wrong with The SJW Scene is because anti-sjws or what the fuck ever love to come in and use it as opportunities to prove their points and if you consider yourself outside the sjw scene and just love to drop in and go “god i fucking hate the sjws/tumblr/what the fuck ever doing this” you are explicitly not helping and i invite you to fuck off
it’s like… like, trans girls have a complicated relationship with masculinity. but we can’t fucking talk about it because terfs will use that against us as more proof of their 50s sociology inspired theroies of male socialization. so we can’t talk about it in a public space where terfs can get oto it. they’ll use it against us and mock us for it. if we don’t say “i have no relationoship to any for m of masculinity at all 100%” then woops, male socialization.
Oh, sorry, I didn’t realize that being dedicated to social justice meant that you have politely kiss the asses of people who are using racist tropes to fight racism uwu✿
There’s also another reason why people who are interested in social justice are often hesitant to criticize tumblr’s social justice circles, and it’s because people like you guys will always, like clockwork, show up to throw a tantrum and accuse us of being shitlords who just want to mock women/poc/lgbt people.
And yes, Zheng He occasionally interfered in local affairs, such as when he intervened in the Ming-Kotte War in Ceylon to capture local leaders who were unfriendly to the Chinese. And no, Zheng He did not commit atrocities on the scale of Columbus—good thing that I never said anything of the sort! But I was pissed by this characterization of Zheng He’s voyage being some sort of santa claus magical mystery tour of delivering presents all around the world, with everyone else giving tribute solely because they were just so goshdarn jazzed by this cool Chinese fleet full of presents. You’re trying to fight eurocentric portrayals of history that oversimplify and/or erase the histories of non-european people by…oversimplifying and erasing the histories of non-european people.
But apparently we’re not supposed to be annoyed by that, lest we get scolded for having a bad attitude (omg muh tone policing!)
this is exactly the tone deaf kind of response i expected and it’s worse than i thought it would be to be honest
i really don’t see how this is a case of the noble savage trope being trotted out as a way to appear pseudo-anti-racist, to be honest. i don’t see how this qualifies as that, but if you want to enlighten me, go ahead. what i am seeing in this post is a kind of whitewashing of zheng he’s role in imperial china, which looks like it was informed by a fair amount of ignorance. before that, i see a kind of uncritical assumption that zheng he was a naturally better person than columbus - definitely not an indefensible one though, given the kind of person we all know columbus was.
and before that, i see people just kind of reacting to a Funny Picture On The Internet that fits their interest, and not one that’s inaccurate, either. someone points out “never forget that white people did nothing first, or the best”. i don’t really think that’s indefensible to say either. some really generic dumbshit goes on about “why do you have to make everything about race” and then a response, talking about all the explorers who aren’t really commonly known names outside of the kinds of people who deliberately pick up history books. i’m sure you learned nothing new about ibn battuta and ahmad either. but they’re not household names. columbus is. you can reason that that’s primarily because of his role in american history specifically. that’s pretty defensible as a position. it’s also worth noting too that the reason why someone who’s important primarily to american history is so well known is definitely due to sheer ubiquity of american culture, and cultural icons - i don’t think it’s necessarily unreasonable to say this is related to western imperialism in general. meanwhile, zheng he, primarily important to say china - although i remember vaguely that his history wasn’t considered important enough to promote to a huge extent in china. but, still, part of the point is that it’s the historical figures that are prmarily of importance to western culture that are spread and recognized all over the world, deservedly or not, while more accomplished people in history get forgotten specifically because their primary importance is to a non european culture, that western cultures aren’t much interested in. you get that, right? you didn’t need to be told that? that that’s what’s happening here? there may be a pretty egregious amount of bandwagoning into a falsely built and definitely misconstrued bit of history. actually, no “may” about it. that’s what’s happening in several parts of this post, mainly the part before you came in and ruined everything.
still don’t see noble savage here. i don’t see a condescending, patronizing, caricature of an Other that’s done from the point of view of europeans, being used to make sure that it looks down on the Other and bolster the europeans somewhat. i see certain elements in common - one party that isn’t european is being assessed favourably, and out of ignorance too - but that’s not noble savage. that’s vanilla ignorance. most of the people on the post are poc - definitely not all in the post at the moment, but further back in the notes, most of the people reblogging this with some kind of sj bent and making comments are probably poc. the person who made the bit that had the most vague knowledge of zheng he but got specific was made by someone who doesn’t even look like that much of an Le Barbaric SJW(TM), definitely just looks like they’re an average tumblr user who reblogs the occasional thing. their part of the post didn’t even seem to be directed at elevating the Heroic Morally Flawless POC over the europeans, it was just an ignorant vague “i like zheng he”. is this the noble savage myth you’re fighting? or is it the person talking about arabic travellers? or the person with the blog named “wakeupslaves” making a pretty generic meme-y comment that they probably forgot about soon after? point it out to me because i’ve missed it. you went on about implying that non europeans were all lily white and perfect. like, i dunno if you use this website, but that’s not the problem with sjw circles, but i guess if you’re not really able to understand the idea that people can talk positively about their marginalized cultures and histories and remain primarily positive about them as a way to combat the marginalization while being aware of the problems but having what are, i think you may agree, pretty legitimate reasons for not wanting to engage in them all the time and bring them up all the time, you can totally just rely on creating a weird flimsy parody of the way actual people talk and behave when the situation is too complex and would mean too much learning about the way actual people behave and think instead of creating weird fake stereotypes based around “uwu” and “tone policing”, and just lump totally disparate, unrelated tumblr subcultures together into a weird frankenstein combination of dead 2013 memes and dead 2011 attitudes and call it one, united, coherent culture that’s obviously one thing for you to attack. i mean, i’d expect as much from someone whose consumer testimonials include obviousl troll blog insutls from obvious troll blogs imitating the dead rhetoric of 2011 tumblr sj
because i don’t see people using racist tropes to fight racism here, i do see ignorance of history and a bit of bandwagoning. i don’t see the noble savage. that really seems like somehting you’ve just come up with to make a more forceful point, but then for some weird reason turned it into a justification for being exactly the kind of fucking dumbarse that Gullible SJWs(TM) hate having turn up on their post. pretty weird justification. given a whole lot of reasons. but i guess you’d found it on the fact that it’s just not worth it to be nice to racists, right?
i mean, that’s a hard idea to argue with, that it’s not worth it to be nice to racists. i certainly won’t argue with that. but uh… i don’t see the noble savage here???? i don’t see the employment of actual racism. it’d be pretty fucking weird, too, to go in and start correcting poc on being racist and using racist tropes in their own discussions and talks and supportive posts about western imperialism and the impact on cultural knowledge of general history. i mean, a lot of people on this specific incarnation of the post aren’t poc - but a lot in other incarnations are, more or less cosigning exactly the same stuff, saying the same points or that sort of thing. unless of course, you aren’t white. i wouldn’t know if you were or not. but if you are, pretty fucking weird of you to go out of your way to lecture poc on how to be properly anti-racist. if that sounds like typical poorly reasoned sjw logic to you, because it ignores the possibility of poc being really bad at being anti-racist, then like, you haven’t understood the motivation behind that kind of sentiment properly. or at all.
i remember back when i thought pretty much exactly the same as you did, getting well into all the cool 2012 ipgd posts and being excited over the children with privilege blog, but also not really liking the anti sj scene because it was filled with 4channers and actual racists and subtle mras using it as excuses to take potshots at the usual targets. i also used to think that the sjws would just drop out of the sky and tear down on anyone who fell out of line
never happened to me. the only time the sjws went onto me was when i deliberately went looknig for the sjws to provoke the sjws and make fun of the sjws in sjw areas and arenas, like you’re doing. as for the regular popular posts that mock someone who’s being Insufcficiently anti sjw, like, i hadn’t realized how poorly i’d understood those situations in the past or the context behind them at all. this is probably my most vaguely explained point, that one specifically, because i don’t have any specific examples of the kinds of posts i’m talking about, and there weren’t really any unifying elements beyween them - except that sjws made them, they involved sjws being angry, and they had a lot of notes. other than that, they varied extremely, most of them barely even related by content or subject.
The SJWs on the other hand have people patrolling their tags deliberately to fuck them up, or to fill them with bad shit, or to go trolling at anyone who fits the most 4chan defined stereotype of a tumblr sjw. and also people like you, who can leave a lot of dumb shit like the one you did with your tone deaf arse backwards shallow critique of a childish parody of Tumblr Culture, which you do a lot because i’ve seen you on so many posts in the past, and get weirdly passive aggressive when you’re asked to fuck off and allow someone who isn’t so balls up ignorant of the basics of tumblr subcultures and talking to people involved in the sjw scene - usually people who have put up with people like you being tremendously shit at them. i don’t mean to imply you’re a racist, or a sexist, or whatever - and you haven’t shown any evidence of being transmisgoynistic, or etc. i don’t even suspect you of any of that. i’m saying you’re an unwelcome arsehole who thinks its worse that people misinterpret your motivatinos and angrily post at you when you draw attention to yourself by making dumb posts like the one you did. i should point out though that you type the same, act the same, and use the same rhetoric as the people who troll out for non binary kids to call them genderspecials and special snowflakes, and the more you use rhetoric that pits the problem as Tumblr Culture while maintaining yourself as somehow an outsider to Tumblr Culture, and make such generic 2011 anti sjw blog rhetoric, you’re going to make people who aren’t already aware of you think pretty much mainly of the pople they hate in the anti sjw scene, that they might be actually pretty intimidated by because thye’re super into gender policing, or because they’re pretty racist, or because they reliably trigger other people, and people are gonna see the way you talk about TUmblr Culture and lump you in with them because of it. you probably think thats an intellectual mistake that really just supports your points about Tumblr Culture. it is an intellectual mistake. but frankly, it’s not really wrong to do it, given how deliberately antagonistic you are when you do shit like this.
you know that us sjws are aware that there’s a lot of misdirected anger and shit in the sjw scene too, right? but we don’t call them “tantrums” because we know that sounding like 4channers out to invliadate anyone talking about ableism today or their mental illnesses or their anxiety disorder they got from the fact that their parents seem to profoundly disapprove of them over their sexuality and gender, or, well you get the idea - we don’t call them tantrums because that’s the language of 4channers out to Destroy The Special Snowflake Hugbox and think that racism is nothing to get worked up over. we’re careful not to sound like the kind of people that other people might reasonably be anxious about, and careful not to use language we know can be really, specifically antagonizing to other people, because of the other people who use that language. that’s why i’m calling you tone-deaf. we’re aware though of how aggressive and sudden arguments in these kinds of spaces can be. we’re aware theyre a rpbolem. we don’t need people who act like you do to point them out to us like we don’t know about them. it would be nice to be able to deal with them without people like you, or people more on the anti sjw scale, hovering around, because we get worried you’ll co-opt them and misinterpret our points, and then that’ll be the incarnation that gets the most notes, or that some anti sjw blog will use it as proof that “even the sjws realize the sjws are bullshit”.that’s one of the reasons people are so unwilling to accept anyone who uses that kind of rhetoric though - you have the smell of 4channer about you when you do that, the kind of person who leaves asks like “honestly, black people just want to be special snowflakes”. like, that’s what your rhetoric does. that’s what happens when you’re main complaint is that sjws are mean and should stop being wrong about what you think and “throwing tantrums” and you start talking about this weird monolithic fictional tumblr culture you’ve come up with.
around this point i’d written quite a bit more, but the tab crashed and this was all that was saved. the general gist was: we can’t talk about the problems with sjw scene and community and etc because people like you come in when you’re not welcome, act exactly the way that makes you unwelcome, complain when we tell you you aren’t welcome, and twist the problems to fit your weird pseudo-anti-sjw rhetoric
i’d love to be able to relaistically talk about the sometimes absuive tendencies that some big name sjws have towards people make fuckups on the internet, or even towards people who are hard to defend. i’m thinking of one person in particular who i unfollowed because they kept giving people they were insulting, detailed methods of suicide and suggestsions to kill themselves. like. that’s 4channer shit. but barely anyone called them out on being really just… not comfortable behaviour. and they make so many of the popular posts too. and it’s just related to how many people see someone make a mistake, and see it as an opportunity to drag some teenager absolutely through the fucking mud in a post that now has 64,000 notes, not because they’re interested in helping, in impropving the sjw scene, relaly just for an opportunity to get the notes and look cool and edgy voiced on the internet. the fact htat people like you are around hovering to fit what we’re talking about into your weird pseudo-anti-sjw ‘tumblr tantrums’ theory of sjw aggressiveness just hurts our chances to actually fucking talk about how shit this is and what needs to change. and your tone deafness means that it’s likely you have no idea how to bring up these points to anyone relevant without them dismissing you for a whole host of fairly valid reasons . if you think it’s ironic that i’m saying this while making this post to you, you haven’t understood what i said, what i’m talking about, or what i’m doing. the presence of people like you makes it harder and just causes more problems for those of us ready to talk about this shit. can you get that? especially when you talk the way you do? can you understand that it’s better to try to get to a solution than indulge your need to mash together outdated and inapplicable-in-the-first-place Tumblrina stereotypes and fire blindly because people misinterpret your motivations and get angry at you putting yourself where you know you’re unwanted in a dliberately dickheaded way on the internet? it would be nice if i could talk about the fact that there’s people in the sjw scene who use “tone policing” to just apply at anyone who isn’t even talking to them on an sjw issue without the first thing people think of being the weird parody version of the tone policing issue you have. the first thing people in our scne e think of when they hear people complaining about sjws talking about tone policing is anti sjws, and people like you, going on about the way tumblr abuses tone policing in the most straight up wrong and oblivious way. this is one of the reasons why we want people like you to stop commenting - it makes it easier for us to talk about it. do you think you can understand that?
if you think we have more common ground on the problems with the sjw community than i’ve realized, we don’t. we have even less than i’ve realized. my points are qualitatively different in a way i have difficulty explaining.
you probablly noticed at a certain point i started makign a lot more typos and getting a lot more words wrong when i obviously meant one word or another. that’s because i’m tired. and have a headache, and am going to go to bed.
goodnight tumblr user lord-kitschener. please remember to fuck off this time
(p.s. why are you going on about sjws getting anxious about tone policing when you’re the one who’s mad that you were asked to be less antagonistic and threatening)
The noble savage line was from the fact that supposedly Zheng He’s voyage was a santa claus friendlyfun equality party because he was chinese and not european.
But ok write a fucking novel about how I’m ToneDeaf McStalin, and I’m totally the reason that tumblr social justice sucks at justifiedd self-criticism.